Probably a beginners question..

[skoll]

Good day, this is my first day and first post in this community.

I've been reading a bit and looking at a few of the short movies, not enough though as I am at work. and as my interest in animation and possibly making stuff myself one day, I decided to get a user to ask questions and to participate / read discussions.

but, well enough ranting - to the question!

I'm probably gonna use a wacom board and draw into Photoshop etc, but I was wondering what do you guys use to make the stuff move?
I know about programs such as Adobe Premiere, but I don't think that's very suitable for animation.
With 'make the stuff move' I mean - panning, zooming, and even setting it up frame by frame.
I'd also love it if someone could write down some of their thoughts on the best way to do character movement i.e. < make one drawing and edit it > or <making a new one for each frame > .. what's the difference in the results?

and I might add - this is 2d animation I'm talking about.

thanks in advance for answeres and I will be reading in the future.

/FSK

[Terro]

Hi Skoll and welcome to AF :)

We usually use Macromedia Flash (now Adobe Flash) or ToonBoom Studio. Flash is great for animation and also for web applications, ToomBoom is strickly for animation and thus has more options and animating tools. If your just planing on animating , go with TB, it's a little cheaper then Flash. But if you want to make your animations interactive, go with Flash.

[Terro]

Ohh forgot one thing, After Effects and premier are also good but they aren'r vector based. That means you will have a harder time animating characters. In Flash or TB you can inport a background and paint on your charqacters frame by frame. In the other programs you will have to have each frame imported.

[skoll]

Alright, so if I get this straight - this Toon Boom, you use it for both drawing and 'making the stuff move' ? Ô_o

[dlpwillywonka]

Yep. Give the program a try. Download the demo (http://www.toonboom.com/products/toonBoomStudioExpress/) and see what ya think of it.

Alot of the pros (Futurama, Family Guy, Disney's TV channel) use the big daddy Opus but the Express and Studio version are just as strong.

Plenty of making stuff move.

[Terro]

Yes both Toonboom and Flash have painting capabilities , but if you wish to import art from Photoshop they can do that too as well as Mp3 support for music or voice. Toonboom and Flash support allow you to paint/draw vector art, photoshop has raster art. The difference between the 2 is that when you zoom in on a image painted in photoshop , eventually you will start to see pixelation. Vector are has no pixelation, you can zoom in 100000% and not see one pixel because it follows a specific mathematic rule.

Usually people tend to do their backgrounds in photoshop and their characters in Flash or Toonboom.

You can always download a fully functional demo of ToonBoom or Flash and use it for 30 days no charge.

[skoll]

Thanks for the answeres guys, just one last question:

can I use a wacom board, or well, any drawing board for that matter with Toon Boom?

[Terro]

Yes sir, you even get pressure sensativity :)

[skoll]

oooh, nice one.. now if only my "local" netshop could get the wacom board I want in stock.. *sigh*

ah well, thanks for the answeres yet again guys :>

[Terro]

Start out by getting a Graphire4, I'm still using mine, it's small and a great start.

If they don't have them , you can always use our Amazon.com powered store to cop one. They are around 80 dollars now.

[Terro]

This is the tablet I'm referring to. I got it for my wife but ended up taking it back for myself, lol

http://astore.amazon.com/aeonsector-20/detail/B000BBAL0W/105-1912470-5976407 (http://astore.amazon.com/aeonsector-20/detail/B000BBAL0W/105-1912470-5976407)

[ZigOtto]

yeap, as terro said, if you plan to work on non-interactive media,
and have chosen to work in Vector based App., probably the best choice
would be ToonBoom, the camera tool is very impressive (in 3d environement),
but if your preference goes on Raster based App, "Mirage", or better, "TVPA pro"*
(which is the after-Mirage generation) could be considered as an advantageous
alternative to the couple PhotoShop+AfterEffect.
both have paint/animation/FXs/compositing abilities, (a kind of "All-in-One" App.)
and their last release (TVPA pro) have, beside the TimeLine view, an XSheet view,
where you can cut, copy, paste, + drag&drop your drawings's source to edit the timing
in the animator's old way, you can also work in "hybrid" workflow (drawings on paper,
then import them and the following process made digitally) as in 100% "paperless" workflow!
(wacom required!...) ;)
if you want to see an exemple animated with this technology, go there :
it's a nice work directed by Ariel Belinco a student from Bezalel Academy (Jerusalem)
http://www.aniboom.com/Player.aspx?v=2359
an other video clip, (though this second-one could have been in a Vector based App) :
http://www.tvpaint.com/galerie/displayimage.php?album=14&pos=2
as you can see, we can work with them in various styles!...

of course, as with Flash or ToonBoom, you can try it by downloading their
free demo versions (30 days long). my 2 cents. :)

* see Mirage/TVPA/TVPA-pro comparison sheet here (http://www.tvpaint.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=89&Itemid=78) .

[jtg91]

im getting the volito2 and thats only £27 so about $55 i think and it is same size of graphire4. It has more reviews than the graphire 4 all giving it the thumbs up but intsead of getting corel essentials you get artrage wacom edition. now there must be a downfall as its half the price as the graphire4 but i guess its good for a beginner and very cheap. volito2: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wacom-Volito-Tablet-Windows-only/dp/B0009H7XAY/sr=8-2/qid=1169147778/ref=pd_ka_2/026-6815567-4529247?ie=UTF8&s=electronics
grphire4: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wacom-Graphire4-Classic-Tablet-Pen/dp/B000BD86YI/sr=8-1/qid=1169147778/ref=pd_ka_1/026-6815567-4529247?ie=UTF8&s=electronics

[skoll]

yeap, as terro said, if you plan to work on non-interactive media,
and have chosen to work in Vector based App., probably the best choice
would be ToonBoom, the camera tool is very impressive (in 3d environement),
but if your preference goes on Raster based App, "Mirage", or better, "TVPA pro"*
(which is the after-Mirage generation) could be considered as an advantageous
alternative to the couple PhotoShop+AfterEffect.
both have paint/animation/FXs/compositing abilities, (a kind of "All-in-One" App.)
and their last release (TVPA pro) have, beside the TimeLine view, an XSheet view,
where you can cut, copy, paste, + drag&drop your drawings's source to edit the timing
in the animator's old way, you can also work in "hybrid" workflow (drawings on paper,
then import them and the following process made digitally) as in 100% "paperless" workflow!
(wacom required!...) ;)
if you want to see an exemple animated with this technology, go there :
it's a nice work directed by Ariel Belinco a student from Bezalel Academy (Jerusalem)
http://www.aniboom.com/Player.aspx?v=2359
an other video clip, (though this second-one could have been in a Vector based App) :
http://www.tvpaint.com/galerie/displayimage.php?album=14&pos=2
as you can see, we can work with them in various styles!...

of course, as with Flash or ToonBoom, you can try it by downloading their
free demo versions (30 days long). my 2 cents. :)

* see Mirage/TVPA/TVPA-pro comparison sheet here (http://www.tvpaint.com/tvpa_tvpap_comparisonsheet.php?lang=2) .

As I am only able to check out the first little film here at work, I must say that it looks pretty cool, but then again, looks like it's immense work, not just drawing it but learning all the stuff in the program? and I'm guessing this software is quite expensive?

I'm probably going to try out Toon Boom, get a copy by next week as my Wacom (Intuos 3, a4 size anyone? ;>) should turn up tuesday or wednesday.

Going to try this as it seems a bit simpler and I don't want to rush into things that make me scratch my eyeballs out.

A last note, I thought mirage was a 3d software? Ô_o

[ZigOtto]

As I am only able to check out the first little film here at work, I must say that it looks pretty cool, but then again, looks like it's immense work, not just drawing it but learning all the stuff in the program? and I'm guessing this software is quite expensive? yeap, not cheaper than ToonBoom, ... for beginers, ToonBoom is probably more indicated ...
here's an other short film, by Dirk Verschure, more "just drawing it" as you said :Beasts (http://www.tvpaint.com/galerie/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=4&pos=0)
more "2D" than that, you die! :p



A last note, I thought mirage was a 3d software? Ô_onah!!!
http://www.bauhaussoftware.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=726
:)