Keeping it short?

[bleupencil]

:confused:

Does anyone besides me find it difficult to tell simple and short stories in film? I find that most of my ideas get blown out of reasonable proportion and double or triple in size most of the time.

It's hard to think on a small scale and I was looking for pointers or suggestions and such as to how to curb this problem.

For example, I have to write a script for a three minute film... or ten minutes if it's going to be a group project... it's the three minute one I'd like to focus on first, and it's the one I'm having the most trouble with.

I guess maybe it comes down to ideas and content, but your input would be greatly appreciated nonetheless :)

[NOOB!]

do u go to one of those animation schools where u have to make ur own individual final short? *shudders*

why would a group project need to be 10mins just cos its a group?

Look a gobelins,they make great shorts and they last about 2mins.in groups of 5.

Good narrative doesn't neccasrly mean complex story.Its just keeping the audience awake.

The only problem would be if your trying to tell a really complex story in a small time frame,i'd personally..just avoid it.I think you need at least 5-6mins mins to tell something complex.Shorts should be easy to follow.Kinda like a microwave,something that should be microwavable shouldn't be in there for 80hrs,i thought they where supposed to speed things up.

and in terms of shorts,thats exactly it,they gotta be short and sweet.

Get all those complex ideas out of your head :banghead. A beggining,a middle....a bit of conflict and an end with a twist,is a good formula.

example.

Bird wants to fly and needs bigger wings(beginning),he steels feathers and bones to make his own wings(middle),at first they don't work(conflict),they work he is flying,success,then they break,and he is flying by himself without them....then he is hit by a rock plumits to his death.(end with twist)

I could redo that to make it a little more appealing and less obvious but still make it short.

lets analyse a gobelins short

pyrats

guy is about to be hanged(beggining,its what the story is based on),Other pyrats arrive to rescue him (middle/conflict) They get to him,but it turns out all they want is the stolen piece of map(twist) he gets hanged (end)

actually u can pretty much find that formula in most shorts,but if you set out a paragraph like that,with short sentances,u pretty much have your story.You have be clever and think about it.

One line per stage (beginning middle and end) is more than enough for the idea.Its the way you visulise it thats difficult.And if you working on a longer short,simply your just streching out that one line and adding more detail to last longer.That 3d short you posted about the englishmen and frenchmen is a good example of that.

think about appeal aswell.who your audience is.

hope this helped.

[bleupencil]

Thanx Noob. It helps.
And funnily enough, it's not unlike what my teacher has said many times. I keep thinking there's some secret art to short film writing that I can't grasp :rolleyes:

And yes, I do go to "one of those schools"
But we have a choice of an individual or group project. They prefer us to take the group ones because there's more likelyhood of the project being finished on time for the screening at the end of the year, even if it's only a little more likely, ha ha!

As for the difference in time for individual and group projects, I don't know why they make it like that, and I may have gotten the times confused between animation and film students, with whom we share the screenwriting class. I do know that the group animations are longer than individual ones though. Possibly because each student needs to put a certain amount of work in to fit with the university's requirements.

[NOOB!]

nah,the secret is the way its told not what is told.I think thats what you can't grasp maybe.

You might have written down a short that you think was really bad cos its *too simple or short* and made it longer,when really you haven't explored it enough and visualised how it might be told with what you already had.

oh and sorry i didn't mean to say *one of those schools* in such and arrogant way.(slaps self)

I will say that i think working in groups is a far better way of getting a solid idea down.But if you want,us at AF can be your group so you don't have to work with the ones at your school :rotfl hahaha

[flashcartoons]

my suggestion is to watch other 3min shorts and 10min shorts

study them and see what they do

[ElusiveMoose]

Hey, Bleu. While Noob is right, it's all about beginning, middle, and end, I disagree slightly with the focus. What's more important is setup and payoff, even though sometimes the payoff isn't what you'd expect.

Best examples are in jokes.

Beginning:
Two guys walk into a bar
(it's all about setup here, set up the scene, the characters, and expectations)

Middle:
Which is really stupid...
(throw a wrench into the works, mess up this perfect world you setup...why is this stupid)

End:
...because you'd think the second guy would have seen it.
(Payoff. Oh! That's why it was stupid. A play on words, and the audience is in on the joke.)

Every part of the story is explained. There are no extraneous emotions, people, or objects--no words that could be cut and still retain the basic story.

If you focus on setup and payoff, the beginning, middle, and end come naturally.

The key to making it short, is making your situation simple. A simple desire shown visually--think "Kiwi".

Some books that might help you are Writing Short Films by Linda J. Cowgill and Making a Winning Short by Edmond Levy. They're a little bit older, so you should be able to find them in the library.

They focus on films 20 min or shorter, but everything they talk about can be applied to films as short as 30 sec.

Good luck.

[NOOB!]

Hey, Bleu. While Noob is right, it's all about beginning, middle, and end, I disagree slightly with the focus. What's more important is setup and payoff, even though sometimes the payoff isn't what you'd expect.

Best examples are in jokes.

Beginning:
Two guys walk into a bar
(it's all about setup here, set up the scene, the characters, and expectations)

Middle:
Which is really stupid...
(throw a wrench into the works, mess up this perfect world you setup...why is this stupid)

End:
...because you'd think the second guy would have seen it.
(Payoff. Oh! That's why it was stupid. A play on words, and the audience is in on the joke.)

Every part of the story is explained. There are no extraneous emotions, people, or objects--no words that could be cut and still retain the basic story.

If you focus on setup and payoff, the beginning, middle, and end come naturally.

The key to making it short, is making your situation simple. A simple desire shown visually--think "Kiwi".

Some books that might help you are Writing Short Films by Linda J. Cowgill and Making a Winning Short by Edmond Levy. They're a little bit older, so you should be able to find them in the library.

They focus on films 20 min or shorter, but everything they talk about can be applied to films as short as 30 sec.

Good luck.


I do feel this is what i said but worded differently,but i guess you explained it better than I ever could.

[ElusiveMoose]

I do feel this is what i said but worded differently,but i guess you explained it better than I ever could.

Sorry, Noob. Didn't mean to offend. :o

[NOOB!]

Hah not offended.My explanation sounds like algebra compared to yours.You kept it short.

Ironic huh? :rotfl

[Terro]

What are the requirements for the animation? Are you working with a single character or is there supposed to be interaction between characters? Or is this an open project where you are free to tell your own story.

I partly agree with what Nubian said regarding it being "how you tell the story". You can stretch the story or cram it, entirely up to you. For instance lets say your doing a piece about a suicide . Some characters takes a dive off the top floor and has bout 30 seconds till he splats down on the pavement. It's easy to stretch that by having him flash through his life on the way down. So it's pretty much all about composition and the timing. Same way you can cram a longer even into a short segment by sticking to key events.

Plan out your story in the same way you animate. Circle the few points that are Key for the viewer to see to get their emotions flowing, then fill in the rest with the Inbetween story. This way you can check for timing at writing time. Keep it simple and try to convey most of the story with actions, leaving words to cut on time where you need to.

[Raze]

Slight *bump*

Your flexibility as a writer is the most important quality an employer is looking for (if you're looking for employment that is). The simplest pointer I can give you is also the most effective.

Who, what, where, when, why, and how? Answer these questions, and do so frankly. Don't think of the short as a long, and complex story. Think of it as it is; as short! Most college professors will fail a student if they drone on without a point, but if you bypass what could happen, then you'll be successful.

[mes]

Sometimes when writing/storytelling I like to tell only part of a story, like a comic book or a chapter of a novel, a comic book is only a small fragment of an entire story yet it still stands on it's own, as long as it captivates the audience and conveys an idea or emotion, you don't necessarily need to reveal the entire beginning middle & end and it's a good way to leave the audience wanting more, plus it keeps the workload down and gives you a project for the future. Obviously this works better in certain situations than others