KTOON MAC PORT IS ON THE WAY!

[RageArtworks]

From the ktoon.toonka.com website:
"KToon Mac port is on the way!
Written by Administrator
Sunday, 09 April 2006
Thanks to Markus Bongard and to Carlo Gandolfi, our development team is starting to port KToon to the Mac world. We expect to have our first binary in a couple of months, so be pacient. This is just the begining of a long way, but now we have the tools to work. Thank you very much guys!"

For the people that didn't know, KToon is like ToonBoom and Flash mixed up, giving a cool and free program. Currently only on Linux, as you just read Mac is on its way, but they still need licenses for Windows... Or something.
Programs like this will bring 2D back! Let us all hope.

[NOOB!]

Programs like this will bring 2D back! Let us all hope.

thanks for the info

???? but do u really think its the program is what makes a good movie? lol theres plenty of people still doin 2d without this,its nothing to do with the program its the execs unwilling to give 2d a chance.

[jackhalfaprayer]

noob, I think rage meant the easier it is to do 2-d, the more people get interested, and the more people get interested, the more likely it is for execs to sit up and take notice.

it's not the software, but it is the open source, free types of software that make it possible for anyone to to 2-d. not everyone can afford to pay $500-$1000 for progs.

there's plenty of people doing 2-d, but it's still a dying art begging for a renaissance. 3-d is taking over.

[NOOB!]

how does it make it available for more people to do 2d? there are already tens of thousands of people doing it,and execs aren't taking any notice now, a few hundred more won't push their buttons.

And about people not being able to afford software? what does this have to do with anything,if u get a job in a big studio its most likely going to be in-house,so even if u do buy cheap software,the company still has to pay for all the software and materials u'll be using inhouse.(unless told otherwise)

And that is the major issue,cost is what the execs are most worrying about,which is why 3d is *taking over* its easier to maintain costwise.

Why do u think theres so many 2d *shorts* and less full length features...cost.

If anyone wants 2d to make a big return u'll have to think about making your own studio.

I probably went a little overboard with rages comment there,but hey thats me :)

[jackhalfaprayer]

how does it make it available for more people to do 2d? there are already tens of thousands of people doing it,and execs aren't taking any notice now, a few hundred more won't push their buttons.

Stop, look, listen. It's like DV. You put the means into the hands of thousands more people than before, statistically a percentage of them are going yield amazing work. More amazing work = more people taking notice. More people taking notice = swelling market. Swelling market = good business. Good business = $$$.

And about people not being able to afford software? what does this have to do with anything,if u get a job in a big studio its most likely going to be in-house,so even if u do buy cheap software,the company still has to pay for all the software and materials u'll be using inhouse.(unless told otherwise)

I'm glad you know about the studio system. I do too. Which one do you work at?

Look, it's like DV. You don't have to work at a major production studio to go out and shoot a commerial or music video on spec. With free software you get to learn and practice without school or business models. Before, you needed to be able to handle big sofware packages, which are expensive, to even LAND a studio job, or have a strong portfolio.

And that is the major issue,cost is what the execs are most worrying about,which is why 3d is *taking over* its easier to maintain costwise. Why do u think theres so many 2d *shorts* and less full length features...cost.:confused:

Wrong wrong wrong. The workflow of 3-d is even more dense and manpower oriented than 2-d. It requires more custom hardware and software and even sometimes more people. And it takes more money. It's *taking over* because people are *paying money* to *see it in theaters.* What's the last successful 2-d feature? Titan A.E.? Oh, that flopped. [Edit: Belleville, Miyazaki, yes ino.]

Please let's not argue about this point. I don't like flashing cred, but I will if I have to.

I love 2-d. You love 2-d.

If anyone wants 2d to make a big return u'll have to think about making your own studio.

Done and done. We're on the same side, noob, but we see things mighty differently. All the same, I think free software is good for beginners starting out to build reels and share ideas, and for people who can't afford big suites to work unhindered by cost.

[NOOB!]

i said its easier to maintain costwise not it costs less,i mean like keeping track of things like paper costs,pencils all materials and the such (i'm talking about traditional here ofcourse* this is all stuff that i've just been told by a friend of mine vincent woodcock thats worked for most major studios.

edit: i'm just speaking about the u.s. here,i think things are fine 2d/3d wise in europe

i think you misunderstand what i'm saying about the free software too,yes it opens doors for more people,but i don't your thinking of animation as a buisness,all they want is more money,seems they will stick with one thing until someone proves them wrong,and its hard for anyone even with free software to take a stand,because in order to promote something you usually have to reach these big studios,like u said in another thread,disney more or less runs the animation industry in the u.s...and well..u knows....it all goes back to money money eventaully.

but they have new creative leaders now so who knooooooooooows.........

and i'm not sure your implying i've never worked in an animation studio,yes that is true,but i think when u have enough friends that work and tell what goes on, it gives you the inside knowledge,but even so,i think the biggest mistake somone can make is trying to start a studio without ANY real experience in the medium at all,like a proper education in the subject or having a job at an actual studio which you have gained experience from.

what experience do you have may i ask?


...........................

I like animation as an art,i love to draw...specifically on paper,but i know if i want to make a decent living out of this i have to adjust,I hate animation as a major buisness its probably why my next three years at animation school will probably be better than being in the actual industry,because i can do what I want to do.

I like the fact that less 2d movies are being produced,because when really good ones are now i made,they stick out more

...........

3d is new,3d is in its golden age,and trust me,people are already getting sick of it.soon execs will realise its more about story than medium.

...........

I've drifted away from the topic but i wanted to talk about that for a sec.

I'm glad new software is available,but unfortunatly i'm not a big fan of completly digital 2d anyway. heh,i've always preferred traditional.

[jackhalfaprayer]

disney more or less runs the animation industry in the u.s...and well..u knows....it all goes back to money money eventaully.

God, I know!

/starts crying

[NOOB!]

phew i edited my post above about 10,000 times.

have a read....sorry for taking the topic elsewhere rage,maybe post it again and i'll make this into a different thread :p

[Terro]

I don't know guys. I think 2D has been kicking all forms of ass lately. Maybe not in theaters and in major production companies, but it has been ruling the web communities and building up it's own style. So many people are able to take a stab at it these days, mostly due to communities such as these as well as software choices. I'm not talking pro stuff here, but I think 2D is already on a great path to success. For me the glory days were when I was growing up waching The Smurfs, GI JOE and Teenage Ninja Turtles as well as new Disney releases, and they were a lot of them. Maybe those days have been overshaddowed by videogames and special effects. I don't know. It's a fluxuating market, im sure all will be well sooner then later.

[NOOB!]

I don't know guys. I think 2D has been kicking all forms of ass lately. Maybe not in theaters and in major production companies, but it has been ruling the web communities and building up it's own style. So many people are able to take a stab at it these days, mostly due to communities such as these as well as software choices. I'm not talking pro stuff here, but I think 2D is already on a great path to success. For me the glory days were when I was growing up waching The Smurfs, GI JOE and Teenage Ninja Turtles as well as new Disney releases, and they were a lot of them. Maybe those days have been overshaddowed by videogames and special effects. I don't know. It's a fluxuating market, im sure all will be well sooner then later.

yes i've noticed too,more people are taking an interest *the best guys don't post online and usually do their stuff traditionally though*

Theres a reason we started this forum after all.

Maybe if everyone just moved to europe its would be great.

europe - art

U.S.- over commercialism/greed

i think all those talented u.s. 2d folk should move over here,and leave those execs to swim in there money until it runs out bwuahaa

[Terro]

i think all those talented u.s. 2d folk should move over here,and leave those execs to swim in there money until it runs out bwuahaa

I concur ;)

[RageArtworks]

Well, yeah, there are a lot of forums about 2d flash animation, but no one does it traditionally anymore, because it just costs to damn much. Hell, software costs more than an animation disk. With this stuff we can all have a real animation desk includig disk (and not just a regular lightbox), and we can all make professional quality movies.
With commercial animation software you usually pay a license per computer, so even if the program is just a few hundred dollars, the studio still needs thousands of dollars to let everybody work.
Also, with opensource programs there's a huge community of users whoare always ready to help you, and commercial programs require you to pay for support packages.
To take an example, look at the best free 3D program, Blender 3D. It used to be a program homemade for the studio NeoGeo. For some reason that studio stopped (not sure), but they thought it was a good idea to make the program opensource so that everyone could use it, and it could be developed even further. It was a huge step for the 3D community, because now everyone could do 3D without expensive 3D soft- and hardware.
When KToon is released for noncomputerfreak operating systems like OSX and Windows, a lot of people will think about and experiment with 2D.

I don't really care about the discussion changing subject here. The news is posted here, and everyone can read it. They don't have to read this. :)

[NOOB!]

no one does traditional animation anymore?

did i misread,or did you mistype? because i don't want to start something outta nothing lol.

but anyway its all personal preference,just depends what your goin for.

[RageArtworks]

Well, the only people really doing traditional are either freaks like me, or professionals. The rest does Flash because it's quicker, or they go right for 3D because they think it's easier.
Honestly, I haven't found many traditional forums. Even this place is all 2D, but there are more digital than traditional animators.
Even in the animation school at HKU in Holland, there's more Flash like stuff than frame by frame, drawn on paper.

[NOOB!]

Well, the only people really doing traditional are either freaks like me, or professionals.

??

i'll just leave you with your statement.;)

and may i remind you that this forum only has 250 members with only about 20 of which who actually post, and has only been around about 6-8 months.

Also its rare u get traditonal animators posting online anyway,mainly because there stuff is never meant for the web.

:cool:

[jackhalfaprayer]

and i'm not sure your implying i've never worked in an animation studio,yes that is true,but i think when u have enough friends that work and tell what goes on, it gives you the inside knowledge,but even so,i think the biggest mistake somone can make is trying to start a studio without ANY real experience in the medium at all,like a proper education in the subject or having a job at an actual studio which you have gained experience from.

what experience do you have may i ask?

Rage/Terro: I'm witchu. I work traditional so even more the freak. I figure I'll put time into digital later.

NOOB: just rediscovered this thread. sry no response. I hear ya on the pals-w/jobs thing. I know many peeps in the Magazine biz and learn lots about publishing from 'em. as to my experience: I've a BFA from NYU Tisch in Undergrad Film and TV. Learned Storyboarding from John Canemaker, Digi Animation and Titling/Motion Graphics in labs, spent a semester with Maya before my head exploded. That was after shooting lots of live action stuff my first two or three years. Heavy on film/video. Got to study acting, camera, sound, television, screenwriting, the works. It was rad, but expensive as hell and my reel didn't turn out as solid as I'd have liked. And the school was so big the profs usually didn't know your name. There's always a flipside.

Still, trying to startup a small biz here in the city is hard. Stuff like Blender tho, gets my spirits high. Rent some compies or invest in a RAID, free 3d software! Hells yeah. Now I just need to beat this flu and eyeball infection : / Goopy eyeballs bad for animating.

[RageArtworks]

Exactly, Blender gets your spirits high for 3D and hopefully KTOON will for traditional. Now it only has to be released for the non-computerfreak-ish platforms like Windows and Mac.

Yeah, of course starting a studio without experience is not a good idea. Not the biggest mistake, depending on skills and talent, just not a good idea.:D

[Sangfroid]

haha there's loads of 2d traditional animators out there. They just don't have the time to post on forums -.-.

[NOOB!]

*the best guys don't post online and usually do their stuff traditionally though*



more or less what i said earlier sang.

[KOTK]

You know who is coming along well with his traditional animation? Arthur ' Comlock' Gilson. ;)

[RageArtworks]

KToon project is broken. :mad::Xead: :( :eek: :confused: I wish there were more emotes to "express my deep sadness and frustration..." Really, Ktoon was a great idea.

(BTW: Sorry for not being online much, but I have insane amounts of homework to catch up on as I switched classes, and I'm working like mad on the animation challenge.)

[Quikhamsta]

i dont know if this post is still relevant as you just said bad things about it all going downhill....

but how good is this ktoon then? :P iv never touched it as i have windows and have never heard of it ....

is it nice and easy to use like "plastic animation paper"?

they have a kick ass free version of their 2d pixel-based animation program.


i suppose the flaw of "pap" is that i dont think it has any features really....

ktoon has everything you would expect from toonboom and flash yes? that would be damn cool for it to be free...... for example all of the 2d animators on my course would be able to get hold of free software.

keep this thread updated please :) :P


(im todd just joined sorry for all the butting in ill go see if theres an introductions thread somewhere in a sec. im 19 and in my first year on a traditional 2d animation degree ... were not allowed to touch computers yet! :P glad to have finally found a 2d animation forum its taken me a month ... the only other one i found was 10 second club ..)

woo

[kttn]

welcome Quikmmasta

you can introduce yourself in the Welcome (http://www.animationforum.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=22)section, but you don't have to. ^^

if ktoon can stay on the line, it would be a great thing ~ we'll see

[RageArtworks]

if ktoon can stay on the line, it would be a great thing ~ we'll see

We'll HOPE. ;)

Quikmmasta, yes it's like ToonBoom and Flash combined. I think. At least that's what I've seen from the screenshots. I haven't used it either, but ports were on the way. They just needed donations.

[RageArtworks]

Okay, so now after their shocking news of discontinuing their program, they have raised USD $112. So it seem they WILL continue.
They are so cruel, scaring us like that.

[Ramune Rabbit]

Checked out the site. Looks very promising! Could definitely use that when I take Principles of Animation class next semester! :D