Developing a Story.

[jackhalfaprayer]

Greetings. I just remembered that I learned how to write screenplays in college. I'd be happy to share this information with you, free of charge. All you need do is post your screenwriting or story questions here and I shall answer them to the best of my ability.

One of my first lessons was Polti's 36 dramatic situations. Essentially this is the roadmap of where drama can go. It applies to all stories, thus it's damn handy when starting from scratch.

There's no reason to list them all here when there's a perfectly good resource here (http://www.gamedev.net/reference/articles/article255.asp) that goes over all of them.

In other news: I finished my first feature length screenplay and I've sent it off to the US Copyright Office (http://www.copyright.gov/) for registration. It costs thirty bucks but it beats losing in court. If you have an idea that you love, don't hesitate to protect it!

-J1/2p

[NOOB!]

wow that was shockingly useless information.

joke haha,thanks for posting this man,i will stick it.

[jackhalfaprayer]

lol

awesome, thx noob

I'll try and keep it useful ;)

[Evil Demon Creature]

Heh, I learned in my college Econ 101 class that college education is an example of something that can't be resold since a person can't just go to college and then tell another guy how it was.

You sure showed him!

Now that I got one class for free, how about you post some excerpts from a few more of those classes of yours?

[jackhalfaprayer]

Indeed! My way of Sticking it the Man. And Spreading the Love, also!

No new lesson today- I think I've an idea of what's next, but I'd like to hear what people think- and perhaps what might be the most help...

Alright, alright.

A really simple lesson-

I wish this would've been drilled into my brain long, long ago. Regardless of the project, of the characters, of your goals and hopes for what you create, or how unique you want it to be: RESEARCH. Research research research.

Books, movies, Wiki- botany, zoology, leatherworking, armor, medicine- whatever you're working with- RESEARCH!!! It will improve your work and style.

Got that one from John Canemaker for free :) He was referring to drawing but it applies to all of the arts, especially writing!!!

[Evil Demon Creature]

Awesome, I love lessons! Especially the ones I already know, but always need repeating (so it's sure to be drilled in my brain).

Also, I never though of research being important in drawing, but after hearing it, now it makes a lot of sense. (I always thought it was considered "cheating" :p )

[jackhalfaprayer]

COMMON MISTAKES

I think it would be proper to note a few of the common beginner's mistakes in screenplay writing. There are other threads here that discuss proper tabs and formatting, see those for tabs and indents.

Somewhere I have a single sheet that gives all the measures for tabs, including character, dialogue, parentheticals, etc. If I find it I'll post it. There's also FINAL DRAFT, which is pricey but worth the investment if you are a serious screenwriter.

Now, the most common pitfall of beginners is to start storyboarding in the script. Example:

FADE IN.

MS of TOM leaning against a wall drinking coffee. CU of TOM's eyes.


Where MS is medium shot and CU is closeup. Don't write about the camera. Don't refer to the camera. I don't care if you want something to be the longest tracking shot in the world, don't say IN ONE FREAKING SHOT, MAN, ALL THIS STUFF HAPPENS. Write about what's going on in front of the camera. You can tell us where the camera is without even referring to it:

FADE IN.

TOM leans lazily against a brick wall. He narrows his eyes.

To see that he leans lazily we need to see his posture, which makes us see a medium shot in our minds as we read. Same with the narrowing of the eyes. We know we need to be closer for details.

If you try to direct and storyboard the sequence in the script, you'll end up with nothing worth reading. Breaking the script into shots comes later. For now tell the story.

The second most common error is putting things in the script that aren't visible. An example:

INT. TOM'S KITCHEN. DAY

TOM feels sad because he ate his mom's last sandwich this morning, and she's going to be right pissed about it later.

None of that is on the screen. What you have on the screen is Tom sitting in his Kitchen. To tell a story and include the feelings of characters you must externalize their feelings with actions. The same scene:

INT. TOM'S KITCHEN. DAY

TOM mopes at the kitchen counter, staring at crumbs on an empty plate. As he fiddles with an empty sandwhich rapper, he BURPS.

Here we have Tom moping over an empty plate, and he's obviously just eaten something, and probably isn't too happy about it. Cut to a flashback of mummy buying the sammich and getting all excited about it, and viola: a SCENE!

Which leads us to the final bit of today: The SLUGLINE, or SCENE HEADER. This is the most important bit of the script as it breaks things down into the locations and times they take place. It consists of A, B, and C with a possible (D).

For A you have two choices: INT. or EXT. Interior/Exterior. Things get murky in CARS (INT.) if you want to have outside shots within the same scene- don't worry, pick the first one that appears and break it down later.

For B you have your imagination: B is the LOCATION. AUNT MYRTLE'S OLD SHOE CLOSET. SAM JACKSON'S GARAGE. GENTLE BILLY'S CLASSROOM. Oh yeah, slugs are always in ALL CAPS.

For C you have four choices: NIGHT, DAY, DAWN, DUSK

And D usually deals only with flashbacks: (Flasback/Present)

So, a good slugline:

INT. AUNT MYRTLE'S OLD SHOE CLOSET. DUSK (Flashback)

A. B. C (D)

Just remember to write (Present) at the header of the next scence that happens in the present.

Believe it or not, the strange formatting of scripts does have significance, especially to producers. If your script isn't in format, you can't break it down into eighths and it becomes very difficult to determine how long things will take, and how much money one might need to shoot them.

If it sounds like I'm leaning towards live action feature films, it's because I am, but even the best animation needs a proper story. And a story needs to be told well before you spend all your hard work and effort making something. And breaking down scripts into shots and resources is even more important when you're drawing freaking everything.

[sharkcellar]

Great stuff!

I have a question. This might sound elementary but, how do you keep a story short and sweet? I have a tendency to start a story, intending brevity, that ends up becoming this sprawling thing that I end up putting a bullet in. Any suggestions?

[jackhalfaprayer]

That depends on what you're writing. A short film or feature, etc... If you're talking in terms of just writing the script, here are some tips:

When it comes to action description you have a max of 5 lines. If it's an epic fight or a climax, still break it into segments [paragraphs] of no longer than 5 lines. Never go over two pages of action in one scene.

Enter the scene as late as possible. Exit the scene as early as possible. Scenes really shouldn't go over two to three pages unless there's lots of dialogue, in which case try to keep it below 6 to 8. In other words, skip the 'how are ya's,' and cut to the meat.

Other than that, streamline it. Don't be afraid to leave out details that will be fleshed out during production anyway.

Hope that helps shark! If not, shout.

-j-

[Lion_O]

Hey Jackhalfaprayer,

This is some awsome info, I'm totally digging this and thanks for the time u have taken i posting this. I'ts going to come in super hand for me especially now that i'm trying to write stuff for my animated projects. I shall be glued to ur thread here.:blink: :D :blink:

[Monsieur Rat]

hey Jack! Yeah, that **** is really helpful, i learned alot of that in filmstudies (and hanging around after school with my dramatic arts teacher who was an amateur actor/writer a while back). Check out John August's site/blog for some really helpful info as well. He wrote Big Fish, so you know this man has what it takes.

Though i hate to say it, but i disagree with one of your tips,

"The second most common error is putting things in the script that aren't visible."

At one point August included to do actually write in their feelings. Cameron Crowe also once said it. Read his early draft of Elizabethtown (before it was turned into the filth i saw on screen) and he includes EVERYTHING with regards to the characters. Same with Almost Famous...

We've been taught to write you screenplay like you would write a novel, so include all such things. Also the format, in my experience is totally style based, and I've rarely seen caps on names like "TOM", now i'm pretty sure that part is my ignoreace, so im assuming ur 100% right in that area.

So yeah, I'm not telling anyone to not listen to you, because you're more experience than me I'm sure... and You''ve ACTUALLY finshed something which is more than I'll say for probably two more years, because i've decided my current screenplay doesn't deserve life.

Anyway yeah, I'm done being an ass, sorry for wasting time.

[jackhalfaprayer]

LionO: thx man, glad u enjoy!

Monsieur Rat: I know of August, but didn't know he had a blog! Excellent. Sometimes it can be good to get tips from the mastermind behind Charlie's Angels: Full Throttle :D I'm only half kidding, he makes plenty o cash fo sho.

As to that "2nd common error," yeah, that's when things become a matter of writing style. It is common to describe emotions in scripts, but I prefer not to do things like "Tom is sad," rather I prefer the "Tom unplugs the phone and rolls over in bed," or even "Tom cries." I'm more of a visual director and that comes out in my writing. You needn't let me dictate your style. On the other hand, it can be both bad and good for the actors to read the characters' emotions, cause that will lock them into a mindset the director may want to deviate from in the scene. Some performers would even take offense, like you're limiting Picasso's palette or something.

All caps on names- yeah, typically you just have the scene header in caps, but I learned that for the intro of a character it's good to CAP it so the person doing the breakdowns can find it easily. I do it with the first mention of each character in a scene, and with any significant SOUNDS or PROPS for the art dept. and location recording/ post work.

These are optional things that can help with production, but as they aren't crucial to story or animation, feel free to skip 'em!

[Monsieur Rat]

Yeah, I write all my blocking stgae direction in italics, so when characters are introduced i often times simply un-italicize them for a highlight :D

And yeah, August has very often times mocked even himself of the error of full throttle, but he has other credits to substantiate he failure in that one region :p I loved Titan A.E. and that story was his love child.

August also has a column on IMDB http://indie.imdb.com/Indie/Ask/ next to Penelope Spheeris and Oliver Stapleton. I learn alot from those three.

So yeah, well I thinkit's great to have these rescources, either way. So spankers to you (i know, im a wee bit naughty.)

[dlpwillywonka]

A definite must read for anyone interested in screenwriting is located Here. (http://www.wordplayer.com/columns/welcome.html)

Run by the two guys that wrote Pirates of the Carribean, Shrek, Treasure Planet and Aladdin (except on aladdin they had alot of other people working on the story as well. basic rule of working with disney ;) )

[jahnocli]

Tried this link It said:
You are not authorized to view this page

[dlpwillywonka]

Curious. well the full website is www.wordplayer.com. I dunno why it wouldn't let you in but the best part of their website is the Columns and indy letters. Possibly down for maintenence? No clue.

[jahnocli]

No, the full site is www.wordplayer.com...

[dlpwillywonka]

No, the full site is www.wordplayer.com...

I was half asleep when I responded to you. I don't know what I type. :p

[jackhalfaprayer]

the page loaded for me just fine, curious indeed. thx for the link wonka, any add to the thread is appreciated.

I can't say that shrek or treasure planet really earned any storycrafting respect from me, but the guys certainly know the biz and how to sell and that makes these columns invaluable.

I have more lessons, but I'm WICKED busy with my animation at the moment. Gimme a few weeks.

In the meantime if you want to view a story that doesn't follow traditional 3-act structure, then screen a film by Kubrick (full metal jacket or barry lyndon) or Terrence Malick (thin red line, new world.) Just caught The New World and that was too beautiful for words.

[dlpwillywonka]

www.joblo.com of course is a great site for screenplays. Tons of scripts on there. Some shooting some pre production. Nice to see the differences.

[jackhalfaprayer]

Aye, JoBlo and Ain't it cool (http://www.aintitcool.com/) are good sources of info. I also started reading Dark Horizons (http://www.darkhorizons.com/index.php) recently, it's pretty dense with production info.

There's a nifty article here (http://users.adelphia.net/~getjeffrey/Column3.htm) containing all you need to know for putting together a project in animation, from concept to pitch to pilot. Some of youse might find it helpful. Now get back to work! What? Who cares what time it is?!?!?

[jackhalfaprayer]

|---------|------------------------------|-----------|

^Act I----^PP1/ Act II----------------^PP2/Act III

What's that liney thing? Three act structure. Hollywood loves and lives this structure, so it's good to know and master this. Just like you need strong visual arts foundation to start animating, you need a strong foundation in story to start telling them.

Want to make the next star wars? Read some Aristotle, yuck! (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/048629577X/sr=8-1/qid=1150490609/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-6873072-2960853?%5Fencoding=UTF8) Not going for it? Can't blame you. More importantly read some Joseph Cambell (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0691017840/sr=1-1/qid=1150490700/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-6873072-2960853?%5Fencoding=UTF8&s=books). Lucas got the dramatic structure for star wars the same place the wachowskis got the structure of the matrix. The Hero with A Thousand Faces. This is the blueprint, folks. The hero's journey.

So- three acts, eh? What's so great about it? It too is a blueprint. The audience's journey. Theatergoers love it, they're used to it. It's comfortable. It's ideal for breaking things down into manageable chunks. But, wait, isn't this just for feature films? No! Tv episodes, commercials, even that badass goeblins short Pyrats (http://www.pyrats.net/) is a traditional 3-act. 1: Man being hanged, pyrats arrival. 2: Pyrats pillage and fight up to the square- longest act. 3: Obtain map, leave dude.

Ok, so three acts. What else? Plot points and planting. Everything needs to fall into place. If the droids aren't in place in act I, everyone is screwed in act II.

Act One: Introduction. Here you introduce the characters and their plight. What they want, what they need, what they like and hate, it all goes here. Call to action/refusal of call/boy has no courage to chase the hot blonde. Lead to PLOT POINT ONE.

PP1: First point of no return. A plot point is the change that flips the story into high gear, and this does so for the second act. A plot point by definition affects every character in some way. Typically the moment of "you go through this door, there's no going back." Actually in the film "The Untouchables," PP1 is literally a door with that exact setup.

Act Two: The MEAT. I always have trouble with this act- which is not at all normal. Most people stumble on the third. This act is a sandbox of sorts. This is where the twists and turns of the characters plays with the story and defies the expectations of the viewers. Typically where real clues are found and questions are answered (leading to more questions,) characters killed off, boy finds out the hot blonde is suspiciously like a crazy stalker instead of a desirable fawn.

PP2: Second point of no return. Typically here the main character makes a decision that affects the plot, and by definition all the other characters. This point leads to contention as some say PP2 is actually the climax, others say it leads to the climax. Either way, you'd better have a culmination of events that leans toward orgasmic as the third act starts with:

Act Three: Climax/Resolution. All your characters fall into or out of place as they should according to their arcs and how they've changed or been changed. Usually features a setpiece of action or urgency as a climax. Then: Plight resolved, murderer caught, boy gets hot blonde, who is in fact desirable fawn. Sometimes resolution leaves strings untied, sometimes everything wraps up into a fine little package. A New Hope has one 30-second scene of resolution, Minority Report has like 5 ten-minute scenes of crap tacked on to try and please everyone.

So there you have it. Tradition is tradition for a reason, and learning "tradition," as foundation can only help you develop your own storytelling style.

Next lesson: Three act structure is crap and I hate it!

[elephant]

Next lesson: Three act structure is crap and I hate it!
Amen!
This 'three-act-structure' is too linear for me. I like stirring things up a bit. :D Although it usually ends up being like that anyway.

[Terro]

Hey Jack, whats the process like when it comes to trillogies. Lets say yuour story takes places over a few episodes, would you then create a 3 Act plot for each episode? or would you constrain it to the entire story ?

[KOTK]

I think it all depends. Say you're doing a cartoon series that has a story to follow(Anime's are a good example as they usually tell a story). A certain amount of episodes would be act 1 another certain amount of episodes would be act 2 etc. Where as if you're doing a one episode story you could just break it down in that episode.

Feel me?

[jackhalfaprayer]

Lets say yuour story takes places over a few episodes, would you then create a 3 Act plot for each episode? or would you constrain it to the entire story ?

Kinda Difficult. So, you either want to do the III act for each episode, making each one strong enough to stand alone- or you could do each act alone in the style of old 50's radio serial cliffhangers, and leave everyone's nails biting for the next installment?

Personally when it comes to trilogies I look to LotR, as each episode is awesome by itself, and each subsequent episode just makes the whole thing better. Anime isn't the best example, as there's stories like Bebop or Berserk, which just has one arc over one season- and stories like Inuyasha, which will never end, ever. With Ether I am striving to have each episodic story stand alone, but when linked together form a whole. That means both an overall arc for all episodes and individual arcs for each single episode. But I'm not the writer that has to deal with most of that:D

The most sound and simple advice I can give is to let the characters and their stories tell you what needs to be done.

[dlpwillywonka]

As Terry Rossio says (i'm paraphrasing) The main story has a 3 act structure, each character has a 3 act structure, each scene has a 3 act structure, so on so forth. Not all of them are as noticeable but the best movies still have them. Plight, action, resolve.

Build your story up then you can chop away at it like a banzai tree to get creative like elephant wants. Cuz you don't want to get SO creative that you leave giant plot holes. :-)

[elephant]

I'm working on a script for a low-budget student film and while writing, it occurred to me, that there's no actual character development (maybe only subtle) and the whole story feels a bit meandering -- that's because I'm putting all sorts of characters through some happenings, trying to explore their backgrounds in the process.

I think it's not wrong for me to say that I'm pulling a Gus Van Sant here, but is that a bad thing? What can be done do improve things? Great dialogue?

Build your story up then you can chop away at it like a banzai tree to get creative like elephant wants. Cuz you don't want to get SO creative that you leave giant plot holes. :-)
I have a bad habit of starting from a random point and then building a story. That usually leaves me with some holes, but I usually find good excuses. :D Then again, it's a real head-ache to patch it all up.

[dlpwillywonka]

My two plays in high school had pot marks all over them. I just did a flow of conscientious and printed the results. Great fun and hilarious improvs for some parts but not something i'm particularly proud of looking back.

[elephant]

My two plays in high school had pot marks all over them. I just did a flow of conscientious and printed the results. Great fun and hilarious improvs for some parts but not something i'm particularly proud of looking back.
Hah, what was it about?

ps. If there's any professional/semi-professional writers here, maybe there's a chance of some of you taking a look at my script? I trust no-one but myself, but I guess it's worth taking a risk. :p

[dlpwillywonka]

First one was a parody play of the Robin Hood story, complete with stunt doubles, maid marian getting completely forgotten by me while I was writing so I made it so the characters did too. :D Plus a different ending every night. First was a stampede of poverty stricken kids taking down Prince john, second was Robin hood filling out forms for tax reformation and 3rd we got "kicked out" of the theatre by a grough theater owner.

The other play was about a boy waiting on a phone call for a follow up date with a most beautiful girl. While he's waiting on this phone call he gets several annoying wrong numbers and his mom sells their home into a reality tv show. So then Justin (character) has a TV exec cming on between scenes telling him how the numbers are and what people are wanting to see. I included a American Idol portion as an audition to Justin's new girlfriend.

My favorite bit though was the prank phone call from George Bush "Is your refridgerator running?" "No" "it's not..oh uh.. dick...it's not running what do i do? Uh I gotta go BYE "

Anyway. Yea random silliness throughout both the plays but no prize winners hehe.

[jackhalfaprayer]

I think it's not wrong for me to say that I'm pulling a Gus Van Sant here, but is that a bad thing? What can be done do improve things? Great dialogue?

One of my favorite writing profs always said, "character is the story and story is character." They are inseparable. Van Sant doesn't work necessarily within the 3-act structure at all times, nor the linear path. I do think it is a good idea to stick with the 3-act structure to begin with because it is easier to chart the arc of the story and characters (what wonka was referring to) when everything moves toward the resolution and all the scenes are in order chronologically. Moving to more sophisticated storytelling without learning 3 act is like starting oil painting before picking up a pencil, or starting animation straight-ahead without learning timing or spacing- but some people can have a knack for it (esp. storytelling) and needn't worry.

That said, regardless of what structure you choose, E, make sure each character has a story and a journey, and make sure the journey changes them irrevocably and undeniably. The only stories that have the the characters ending up in the same place as before that aren't boring, panned, or awful are the ones that use it for irony, satire, or heart-wrenching melancholy. And in that last case, they've been through something that should change them, and didn't. Which is really sad.

PAhahah great dialogue never hurt a story

[elephant]

I do think it is a good idea to stick with the 3-act structure to begin with because it is easier to chart the arc of the story and characters (what wonka was referring to) when everything moves toward the resolution and all the scenes are in order chronologically.
It might be easier, but I'm afraid that choosing the linear way of storytelling would somewhat ruin the film by making it even more boring. Not much is happening there. :D
Besides, I've got the right timeline of the story written down, so I guess that's really not a problem.


That said, regardless of what structure you choose, E, make sure each character has a story and a journey, and make sure the journey changes them irrevocably and undeniably.
I'll definitely keep that in mind when writing.

[jackhalfaprayer]

could always pull a tarantino, and tell everything chronologically- then in a second or third draft **** up the timeline and make it "brilliant."

just a thought. ever watch memento in order? rent the collector's edition.

[elephant]

just a thought. ever watch memento in order? rent the collector's edition.
Hah, I bet seeing that in order will only prove that the U-shaped timeline was necessary to make it more interesting.

Tarantino? Hmmmm, I must be the last person who hasn't seen Pulp Fiction and Reservoir Dogs yet... :(

PAhahah great dialogue never hurt a story
Indeed. I'm not good in creating clever conversations though, I choose to blame it on my age.
Speaking of conversations, Jim Jarmusch is really good - meaning "Coffee and Cigarettes" and "Broken Flowers" (watched it yesterday).

Aaaahh. I love films. :D
*goes back to writing*

[dlpwillywonka]

Then again there's the age old advice. Do what you like. If you want to write crazy mashed up stories without any care to structure or plot. Then do it. As long as you're entertaining yourself it'll work in the end. But just make sure you don't become an Ed Wood :-D

[jackhalfaprayer]

Then again there's the age old advice. Do what you like. If you want to write crazy mashed up stories without any care to structure or plot. Then do it. As long as you're entertaining yourself it'll work in the end. But just make sure you don't become an Ed Wood :-D

I think that's only age-old advice because you never hear from the people who fail, only the miracles of the ones who succeed.

Yes, so long as you entertain yourself, you're headed in the right direction. But things change when they're read by lots of strangers.

You should know clearly why your story must unfold this way, and be able to explain that reason easily. That's easier to understand when you understand the basics. What I'm sayin is : Learning the basics of a medium can only help you. It's like people around here who start drawing animation before doing any life drawing or anatomy studies or color theory. They're only limiting what they themselves will be capable of in the future.

[Sangfroid]

I think it's not wrong for me to say that I'm pulling a Gus Van Sant here, but is that a bad thing? What can be done do improve things? Great dialogue?

I have a bad habit of starting from a random point and then building a story. That usually leaves me with some holes, but I usually find good excuses. :D Then again, it's a real head-ache to patch it all up.

We had a good seminar from a decent script writer here not to long ago. Something he said about that did stick with me. The situation creates the dialogue and how your characters react.

Also that everything is relative as in drawing, make the simple thing work and then detail will come naturally (ie, can you tell your story in a paragraph? Or even a sentence?) If not you're most likely in trouble (or writing another bad Hollywood epic).

I really noticed this last year with films being written here, the ppl who just started running without thinking really hit the ground very hard (some films reached 5 minutes in length and stopped production before they started the rough).

And I’m sure you won't, but for the love of god Wright about what you know not what you think you know, so many student/amateur films and animation are horribly unwatchable because they're about rape, guns or epic war but written by people who have never been raped been in a gang had an interesting drug experience or seen anything of war other than LOTR. Not only this but they have probably never talked to anyone who has experienced these things or even bothered to read about them.

They just saw a film about these things that they really liked when they where 15.........innovate don't just imitate without thinking.

[elephant]

My god, I've lost all hope... (and no, my film isn't about guns, rape or war. Also, I am trying to do my own thing here.)

Also that everything is relative as in drawing, make the simple thing work and then detail will come naturally (ie, can you tell your story in a paragraph? Or even a sentence?) If not you're most likely in trouble (or writing another bad Hollywood epic).
Someone somewhere told in a review that the movie (can't remember the name) gets most of the little things right, but it's the big picture that worries him. I feel that my movie has the same problem.

There's some pictures/scenes/ideas in my head that I'd like to film up and the script is pretty much a combination of all these details. What I feel though is that I've failed to come up with a solid plot to revolve these ideas around.
I hope I'm making any sense...

And I’m sure you won't, but for the love of god Wright about what you know not what you think you know
In the movie, there are several themes that are somewhat unknown to me, so I just think what I would do in such a situation, or better - what my character would do.
But I'm keeping it real! Alcoholism is a subject I'm going to touch, but only from the viewpoint of a drinking person's child (I have relatives with drinking parents, so I know what it's like).

Ah well... maybe I'll just have to accept the fact I'm too young and naive for things like this. :p

[Sangfroid]

There's some pictures/scenes/ideas in my head that I'd like to film up and the script is pretty much a combination of all these details. What I feel though is that I've failed to come up with a solid plot to revolve these ideas around.
I hope I'm making any sense...

Ha ha yes this is very much a tendency with animators. But something that's difficult is I’ve seen people that are way too vague and lazy about it. If you are going for a Fellini 8 1/2 non linier film then really do that! (Felini was a trained caricaturist) Also there's the issue of perhaps giving yourself too much to take on.


In the movie, there are several themes that are somewhat unknown to me, so I just think what I would do in such a situation, or better - what my character would do.
But I'm keeping it real! Alcoholism is a subject I'm going to touch, but only from the viewpoint of a drinking person's child (I have relatives with drinking parents, so I know what it's like).


Be careful here that you're not overcomplicating things. Especially if it's your first time writing something like this. It's the most simple films that are Sublime (and appear the most complex).

[elephant]

Did I mention that the script I'm talking about is not going to be animated? By reading your post, Sangfroid, I thought you were thinking animation. :o

Be careful here that you're not overcomplicating things. Especially if it's your first time writing something like this. It's the most simple films that are Sublime (and appear the most complex).
The script is far from complex... The stories are simple, but touching. :D

[jackhalfaprayer]

The script is far from complex... The stories are simple, but touching. :D

That makes me confident that you should go forward. Keeping the story simple is one of the best things a writer can do, because you'll often find that it's more effective.

If it feels disjointed, ask yourself what each character wants, what each character needs, and how they're working to achieve that. So long as each character is distinct, as is the relationship between them, chronology and structure can fall by the wayside without hurting the integrity of the story. But then again, I always lean on solid characters.

I'm still of the mind that you're having trouble because you haven't studied the conventions you're breaking well enough. That's not to say you can't power through and learn just as much with this process.

That said, have you seen Broken Flowers? That movie was so simple, and so gorgeous. Lots of folks didn't like it, but man it's not a conventional way of telling a story. It's disjointed and episodic, with lots of changeovers and fade-to-blacks, and I still loved it.

[elephant]

If it feels disjointed, ask yourself what each character wants, what each character needs, and how they're working to achieve that. So long as each character is distinct, as is the relationship between them, chronology and structure can fall by the wayside without hurting the integrity of the story.

I'm still of the mind that you're having trouble because you haven't studied the conventions you're breaking well enough.
Yeah. Right now it seems that I need to get to know more of my characters, before I give them to the viewers... Once the characters are ready, maybe the story will fall into the right place.

This isn't my first movie project btw, I've edited (I pretty much re-wrote it) a script for an uber-crappy horror movie (which actually was more of a comedy).

And I've got a finished script for a small film noir sitting on the desktop. :D
The plan was to make a film out of it, before starting any other projects, but we (a girl and I) found that the dialogue wasn't interesting enough. The idea itself was pretty okay though.


That said, have you seen Broken Flowers?
"Well, the past is gone, I know that. The future isn't here yet, whatever it's going to be. So, all there is, is this. The present. That's it."

Yes, I mentioned watching it in a previous post. :D
It was slow and I got bored at times (mainly the car-driving bits), but the dialogue was great. The ending was fun too. :D

[jackhalfaprayer]

Yes, I mentioned watching it in a previous post. :D


Oh yeah, duh.:rolleyes: The ending was freakin' amazing. Visually, in one shot, Jarmusch described exactly where the character was and left you panting to find out what his decision would be- which you couldn't choose cause Murray's character was so flat and hard to read.

Good luck in all things, E, and if you hit any more brick walls send me a PM. Also, Sangfroid had very good advice for you that I hadn't had time to read earlier. Between the two of us, I hope you found help. Since you've seen Broken Flowers, how about the Madness of King George III? It treats characters very distinctly, I've never really seen a film like it. It's because it was written for the stage and adapted, I think- but it's hard to get a read on how and where menace really comes from.

More lessons as I get the time.

[jackhalfaprayer]

Here we're briefly going over the Step Outline, which can be very helpful in deviating from three-act structure. I know I said I'd be going over non-traditional structure next, but I lied.

Not every writer uses this tool, but I find it invaluable if I'm having trouble with a scene or story. Essentially the step outline is the major plot points (major scenes) within the story all in order as they occur chronologically. For a feature you should be able to fit this on a page or two, so for a short this could literally be a few numbered sentences- but even that can help. And if you're developing a world timeline in which lots of things happen to a place or race or space, then it's just as valuable a tool.

A step outline can also be broken into acts as well as dramatic beats. Keep each sentence one to two lines max. If you want to present things out of chronological order, that's awesome! But you still need to know the whole timeline, don't you?

EXAMPLE STEP OUTLINE FOR BLUMB'S MUMS:

1. Blumb gets fired from work.

2. Blumb gets into tragic blimp accident and meets Susie Q.

3. Courtroom, Blumb sues Cardinal Blimp Co. Awarded $$$

4. Susie Q lands job at big-name restaurant Goldie's.

5. Blumb invests $$$ wisely, becomes playboy. Buys Goldie's.

6. Susie Q has trouble with cooking, gets fired. Sees Blumb, who recognizes her.

7. Blumb helps get her job back, happily ever after, etc.


(In a feature script, he wouldn't recognize her ; she'd be sad, end up living with her mum and some event would have to turn Blumb around from careless playboy to... well, you get the point. A feature's ACT I would end here. As it stands its a nifty short.)

...On and on till your story is complete. It looks simple because it is, yet most people never actually sit down and do it. If you're having trouble and you haven't done this, sit down and give it a shot.

If you're having trouble and you've plotted everything out in a step outline, then by god the trouble is in your story and you've got to work through it.

If you're having trouble keeping details to a miminum, remember to whittle it down to where the main character(s) have to be at and leave any and all descriptions of them for elsewhere. Also, ask yourself if you remove one of these scenes, does the story make sense any more? If it does, that's not an essential beat and shouldn't be in the step outline. The STEP OUTLINE contains only the scenes absolutely necessary to have your tale make sense.

So if you were doing this for a 3-Act feature you'd want to hit about 10-12 beats in acts I and III, and about 20-25 beats in act II.

ACT I (1-10) + ACT II (11-30) + ACT III (31-50) = 50-60 beats.

If you get into it hardcore, doing this for each character separately and then condensing into the same number of beats can be invigorating. Like, having a separate beat 7 for Billy, James, and Jill. I've never done this myself. However, for each and every original bit I do, I do a step outline. It never hurts to have a hard copy of the blueprints.

I think next I should cover the synopsis and the treatment, which are crucial to animation writing and pitch purposes. So unless there are requests, that's where we're headed!

[holymotown]

I love writing stories and i'm good in them.But where i have a problem is how to package it for animation companies and how to get in touch with them or convince them.
Help out.

[jackhalfaprayer]

I love writing stories and i'm good in them.But where i have a problem is how to package it for animation companies and how to get in touch with them or convince them.
Help out.

welcome. Glad to know you're confident in your storytelling abilities. You've hit the brick wall I've come to know and hate called THE PITCH. The package that you are talking about is called a pitch. There's an oral presentation pitch like a powerpoint, and a pitch bible which is a printed packet that contains everything about your show or series. Typically people develop the pitch bible and print it out before putting together the oral pitch. This way you can mail the bible to networks and people and have the oral presentation ready for any responses.

The rules for these, and how to get them into the right hands are two different problems. I'm going to cover the pitch bible and oral pitch, but mailing them out to networks, agents, and managers is your responsibility.

PITCH BIBLE

The Bible is the holy grail of your idea. In 20-30 pages it tells the reader everything they need to know about the story. [In a feature film you do this in less than 10-13 pages.] The pages for a tv show get muddy so you'll have to google around. Search for TV show pitch bible or the like and you should find plenty. Tv show pitchbooks vary more widely than features. Check out Wow! Wow! Wubbzy's show bible here (http://wubby.typepad.com/photos/show_bible/000cover_final.html), which was done almost like a kid's book.

I know that the Venture Bros creator got the show purchased by sending a pitch bible to CN in the mail. But keep in mind he had a glowing resume of show experience on The Tick and other shows under his belt.

Having experience in the industry helps in all things.

THE PRESENTATION

As to the verbal pitch, generally keep it at 2-5 minutes. Run through the main selling points quickly. It's a good idea to have a visual aid with you, particularly to focus on ancillary opportunities, marketing, etc. Then present the people with the pitch bible to go over later.

As to the people you send it to, the people you pitch to- you're on your own. Try to match the product/story to the proper output. For instance you wouldn't market a zombie movie to Nick Jr. or a cuddly kid's show to Cinemax.

That's it! Sounds easy but it's a lot of work, especially if your story is detailed. One of the hardest things is boiling your baby down to a quick reduction, so good luck.

[jaksa27nik]

Hi, I'm here little late, but I saw those lessions and I must say they were realy helpfull, not just to write sceen, but the way of sharing. Anyway, I would like to ask if here is going to be more usefull tips? And, is there any competition for stories, so we could take our part? And if there is, how to get there? (some web sites, or addresses if known).
One more thing, are you doing consultation? like, I send you story, you send your coment? If it is possible may i have your e-mail?

[Milesx]

I done an animation pitch. What do you think? Here's a link to it.

http://www.writingforums.org/showthread.php?p=122818#post122818

[SAB0TAGE]

Late to this thread, but congratulations on completing your first screenplay. I just finished my first script as well. I have been writing for a long time but this is the first script I’ve polished and registered with the WGA. If you’re done with the copywrite process, I would love to read your script. Have you posted it on this thread? Any luck getting it sold?

[Milesx]

Not yet, but I'm still working on it. I'll post it soon. Right now I'm trying to figure a way to make my characters different than being a clich'e. On other post, they said my characters are like the Road Rovers, because they are crime fighting dogs. I decided to make them kung fu sword fighters to make them different.

[jackhalfaprayer]

Not yet, but I'm still working on it. I'll post it soon. Right now I'm trying to figure a way to make my characters different than being a clich'e. On other post, they said my characters are like the Road Rovers, because they are crime fighting dogs. I decided to make them kung fu sword fighters to make them different.

Hi Milesx, welcome. I've not been around these part lately, which I regret as I see so many new ppl. There will be more tips on the way soon for anyone who needs them. I recently dug through my stacks and came across an old writing packet which has nifty stuff like a simple formatting guide and some quick tips.

But before I get to those I'd like to go over your pitch.

First off, take the advice of the forums on the name. It's gotta change. "Play Dogs," is misleading- it sounds like competition for Nintendogs. There are plenty of options with a world this plentiful. Bloodhounds, Sighthounds, Bounty Dogs, Para Hunters, etc. Anything that hints at the genre right off the bat would be golden.

Next, don't post anything to the internet -especially an entire show synopsis- without having it registered with the US Copyright office. I cannot stress this enough. It's like 30 bucks and only takes a few clicks of your mouse.

As to your pitch itself, it needs work for sure.

CONCEPT- you can whittle this down. Take out the numerous descriptions of the villains, keep things simple. Your last paragraph should be the first paragraph, then get into what the show is about.

"IMAGINE"- This is a no-no. Never start a pitch with "Imagine yourself in..." It's your job to put us there, not to tell us to go where you're taking us. Either reformat this section to describe the world, or perhaps a description of that the _____Dogs do on a daily basis. Day-in-the-life-of type deal. Avoid second person "you," this or that.

"SETTING" - Serves its purpose, again it suffers from overly long lists of things and starts feeling redundant. Get the world described with action words, tell us what things are doing, not what they are. Then you've got a good amount of backstory on the paras- this shouldn't necessarily be in this section, but perhaps in the "Concept," section if it fits.

As to the characters, I haven't read all of them yet, but don't get hung up on cliches. Remember, if it sucks its a cliche but if it works it's just an archetype or a trope. These characters are indeed fairly 2-Dimensional descriptions, but we're talking about a cartoon not bloody Shakespeare. Don't get too hard on yourself at the outset. Brainstorming is good!

Equipment should go briefly into the concept or character sections; you don't have to name the props in your pitch- just mention them and if someone is interested they will ask. You can leave some things vague to get people's attention.

The series synopses are where the pitch really suffers. You need to rewrite these. If you're writing about an entire season when you say "series," these are too short. A better way to do it might be to write a synopsis of the first 5-7 episodes of the first season.

After that it's industry standard to put together a kind of business statistics page, complete with demographics and stats for similar shows, which network you'd be at home on, ancillary market opportunities, etc.

You've got a way to go to flesh out, at least to the pitch reader, what the story actually is. But mostly your pitch needs polish. And art. Concept art is a staple of animation pitch bibles. If you can't whip it up yourself maybe you could find someone round here or ConceptArt.org who needs a portfolio booster.

And remember, the strongest projects are the ones you feel strongest about! If you are considering changing characters and weapons, perhaps you need to sit down with the core of the idea, flex the style a little bit, and see what comes of it.

That's my 2 cents, hope it's of help. Good luck!

[Milesx]

Thank you very much. I am already rewriting my pitch and I changed the title. The title is called, Dark Hunters. Or maybe they might be called Para Hunters if it sounds better.

[SAB0TAGE]

Jack, congratulations on completing your screenplay. Have you posted it on this thread? Or anywhere for that matter? I would love to read it.

[jackhalfaprayer]

Thanks, sabotage. Yes, I completed my first script but it's on spec. It's actually a sequel to a film that's already been made based on characters that belong to someone else. I will probably end up posting it around once I'm sure that it's not at all useful for me. Meaning the sequel gets a greenlight with someone else's script.

I've sent off query letters to people in the industry and the best response I got was a letter from the CAA's submission dept basically telling me to **** off. I'm not terribly concerned about this at the moment as I've got 3 shorts I want to get done this year, and 5 or 6 loglines/ideas for original features I'd like to write before I get too old/senile/dead.

[jackhalfaprayer]

howdy all. Been a while. I've got a big post dealing with formatting and dialogue/parentheticals coming up but I thought I'd check in and post a tidbit about screenplay competitions. it's a great way to get feedback as most places will offer critique even if your screenplay isn't selected to take part in the competition.

if you're a filmmaker you probably know about withoutAbox (http://www.withoutabox.com) but I recently discovered they've added project support for screenplays as well. there's a lot of great short fiction screenplay comps and of course LOADS of feature comps to check out. most of them have entry fees but hell, it's almost always worth a shot if you've got a little bit of dough to spare and you're sitting on a halfway decent script.

just keep in mind the do's and don'ts (http://www.oscars.org/nicholl/format.html) and you're already in the upper 10%.

as always i'm lurking the threads here or PM me if you have questions

cheers

[Metalmadcat]

OMG I CAN'T BELIEVE I did not take my time reading this before writing all that brainstorming that other past weekend..oh well, I guess I can use this whenever I have all more clear in my mind..until then, messy stuff..messy!