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Old 01-11-2013, 08:15 PM   #21
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Black Cauldron.
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Old 01-12-2013, 03:18 PM   #22
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for a start pixar and disney are and were two diff entities, and if u want flash l can send u my 8000 word disertation on the disneyfication of our faireytales i got 100% on my marks:P so if u wanna go toe to toe with me on disney bring it!


Disney is now actually pixars whipping boy, disney had nothing to do with toy story. In fact disney hasnet made half decent money making sucess in years its only saving grace now is john lasster is at the helm so really id argue Pixars taken over disney.

But thats beside the point, Disney has been built on ripping off, sexisest , racist and blatent fake sweeky clean image set up by animations own super villian Walt disney.

Sure the animations pretty but id equate it to look at a pretty Lion yeah its cute at face value but i still wouldnt pet it.

Also im not scottish im actually half irish and the word emo dervies from people who like to listen to emotional led music, something of which is not my flavour. Resorting to silly 'emo' shows ure truely a disney kinda guy

Theres nothing wrong with not likeing disney there not to me some animaiton god and never have been even as a kid i'd bypass them for some Ray harry hausen movie or jan swankmajer animation. Its personal taste, now it much more based on moral and for me ethicall issues of the brand but as a kid i just couldnt swallow that suger sweet nonsense they were trying to spoon feed me. And lets face it if u look at my work im not exactly disney
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Old 01-12-2013, 03:39 PM   #23
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Well i guess you could argue that some of Disney's older movies had some 'elements' of all that jazz but I think the new pics are just good ole family fun

Wreck-It-Ralph
Winnie the Pooh ( 2011 )
Princess and the Frog
Tangled
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Old 01-12-2013, 04:24 PM   #24
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for a start pixar and disney are and were two diff entities, and if u want flash l can send u my 8000 word disertation on the disneyfication of our faireytales i got 100% on my marks:P so if u wanna go toe to toe with me on disney bring it!
This is was I was trying to say earlier. They are under the same corporate umbrella but Disney animation and Pixar animation are two separate production companies. Miramax is owned by Disney also but I doubt anyone is going to call Pulp Fiction a Disney film

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Sure the animations pretty but id equate it to look at a pretty Lion yeah its cute at face value but i still wouldnt pet it.
In terms of the artistry and technology, Disney was the leader for many years. But to be honest, it was seeing Ralph Bakshi's films in the 70s that made me want to animate. And I still admire his work a lot.

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Also im not scottish im actually half irish and the word emo dervies from people who like to listen to emotional led music, something of which is not my flavour. Resorting to silly 'emo' shows ure truely a disney kinda guy
Hey, here's for being of Irish and Scottish ancestry! (I am too)

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Theres nothing wrong with not likeing disney there not to me some animaiton god and never have been even as a kid i'd bypass them for some Ray harry hausen movie or jan swankmajer animation. Its personal taste, now it much more based on moral and for me ethicall issues of the brand but as a kid i just couldnt swallow that suger sweet nonsense they were trying to spoon feed me. And lets face it if u look at my work im not exactly disney
Did you know that JRR Tolkien loathed Disney in the extreme? When he originally sold off the rights to his books he had made it clear in the contract that under no circumstances was Disney ever to do any adaptions of his work. One of the reasons Bakshi developed the 'painting on film' rotoscope style for his version of 'Lord of the Rings' was so it wasn't all bright and clean like a Disney film, he wanted the film to have a dark and gritty realism and not have a cartoony, kid-centric look.
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Old 01-12-2013, 06:56 PM   #25
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I'd like to start with a clarification.

From an a techincal perspective the admiration for Disney films is well-deserved. The genius of those early animators was that they codified the principles of convincing animation. Consider that 2D animation has never looked better than Pinocchio, released in 1940, because those Disney animators figured it all out by then. Present day animators, quite rightly, stand on the shoulders of giants.

From a story and thematic perspective, there is much to criticize of course. All films reflect the times in which they are made, so it's easy to judge them by today's "enlightened" standards. That's not to say I don't disagree with critical analyses but they need to account for historical context.

Oddly enough, of the two criteria, technical and story, story is probably the most important.

With that in mind, I'd consider Brave perhaps not as best film but certainly as an important one. It's as beautifully rendered as any Pixar film, yet its unconventional storyline has generated a lot of heated comments. It has deviates from the formula: Merida's wish isn't fulfilled by a male suitor, nor does she sing any songs. It's basically a story about the relationship between a daughter and her mother, told in a fantastical way. I can't recall any other Disney film (except Freaky Friday ) to cover this territory.

If Disney of the 20th century was mired in an old-fashioned mindset then Brave may hold a hint of the future of animation in the 21st century.

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...super villian Walt disney.
Now the story of Walt Disney the man is another topic altogether...

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And lets face it if u look at my work im not exactly disney
We wouldn't have it any other way.
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Old 01-12-2013, 07:50 PM   #26
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Alright, thats enough of this. If you want more information concerning the "Walt Disney Conspiracy."
Please refer to your local Search Engine...

Captain's Log...my last entry, related to Disney. -> Rage Against The Machine - No Shelter - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NEoesmnYU4

The Disney Company Better Be Listening, Because The Next Generation Is Watching.
Freedom of Information, Freedom of Choice!



Here's a Favorite, Dedicated to All the Sketchers in the Animationforum. -> A-Ha - Take On Me - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djV11Xbc914

"The video used a pencil-sketch animation / live-action combination called rotoscoping, in which the live-action footage is traced-over frame by frame to give the characters realistic movements. Approximately 3,000 frames were rotoscoped, which took 16 weeks to complete."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Take_on_Me
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Old 01-14-2013, 08:51 AM   #27
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From an a techincal perspective the admiration for Disney films is well-deserved. The genius of those early animators was that they codified the principles of convincing animation. Consider that 2D animation has never looked better than Pinocchio, released in 1940, because those Disney animators figured it all out by then. Present day animators, quite rightly, stand on the shoulders of giants.
Agreed. That's why this talk of "Disney is not so great!" is very peculiar. You may not like the stories, you may not like the style, you may not like the man, you many not like the company, but if you're claiming the works of undoubtedly the greatest animators who ever lived are somehow inferior, I don't know, I guess I'm just going to have to disagree there, and objectively I think you're letting your hatred of a company totally, totally cloud your better judgement of animation.

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If Disney of the 20th century was mired in an old-fashioned mindset then Brave may hold a hint of the future of animation in the 21st century.
Gosh I sure hope not. Brave was a bit of a mess story-wise. I get the theme behind it, but Merida was a horrible person who refused to accept responsibility to the bitter end. There's "standing up for yourself" and then there's "running away from your problems and poisoning your mom so you can have your own way."

Pinocchio did some horrible stuff too, but he was essentially a week old emotionally and sacrificially heroic at the end of the day. And thank goodness he never purposefully poisoned Geppetto.
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Old 01-14-2013, 11:31 AM   #28
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Spoiler alert much? EVEN THOUGH this is an animation forum, maybe, just MAYBE there are some people on here who still have yet to see Brave, while still holding every intention to do so eventually?

Truthfully, I have heard enough about it to want to see it even more than when it first came out. For one thing, it would be a lot more refreshing to see a female lead role, not just for the fact that she does not see finding a husband the solution to all of her problems, but more for the fact that she can be a heroine that has clearly expressed faults and can go about an entire movie actually wrong about her own perception of reality. WHAT'S THIS? A MOTHER/DAUGHTER STORY WHERE IT TURNS OUT THAT THE DAUGHTER WAS WRONG AND THE MOTHER WAS RIGHT?! THIS MUST BE BLASPHEMY! (I don't want to think she holds on to that stuff literally till the bitter end, but even so that implies that she does actually LEARN AND GROW even if only literally at the very last second. Otherwise it would have been held on to BEYOND the bitter end instead of simply 'until'. Either way, I gotta hold off judgement until I actually see the film myself.)

The point being, the more I hear about this, the more confident I feel that I will love this film for being the exact opposite of literally every single thing I absolutely HATE about what Tangled is and ever will be.
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Old 01-14-2013, 01:42 PM   #29
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Yeah, you should see it. But it sounds to me like you've already made up your mind about it.

I feel like a lot of people like Brave because of the theory behind it, more so than what actually takes place on screen. Which is fine, I just didn't much enjoy it because of what took place on screen- deeper meaning aside. Yes, the thought BEHIND the film is a lovely one, filled with personal choice and feminism. I think the actual film handled that rather poorly myself, but everyone has their own opinion of it. I tend to lean more towards this point of view of the film than gushing about how "It's a female lead. She doesn't want to marry a guy. Triumph for anti-Disney fables."

But again, all entitled to opinions, that's entertainment for you. I'm glad many folks enjoyed the film thoroughly, much in the same way as I enjoyed others like Toy Story 2 and Monster's Inc.
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Old 01-14-2013, 11:12 PM   #30
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The point being, the more I hear about this, the more confident I feel that I will love this film for being the exact opposite of literally every single thing I absolutely HATE about what Tangled is and ever will be.


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Old 01-16-2013, 12:48 PM   #31
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I agree with a lot of what been said by you all well excepy JK Brave breathtakingly beautifully animated and that coming from someone who not huge comp animation fan

also she does not fail to take responsiblty , she takes it on her own terms, why is it that she must conform to patrarical ideal that she needs a man to be a ruler. If anything she a far better role model than ure previous attempts at feminst protaganist like bell beauty and the beast.

but its not only that story it also about the struglle between mother and daughter growing up somthing you as a dude wont fully grasp. And unlike so much before we have strong mother character who isent evil! we also have a happy loving family being potrayed and even better we dont have to listen to anyone sing lol
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Old 01-16-2013, 12:57 PM   #32
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Plus Billy Connolly plays the King.
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:10 PM   #33
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I agree with a lot of what been said by you all well excepy JK
Well considering how often we see eye to eye (or lack there of) that's not surprising to either of us I'm sure.

I'm just happy some people got a lot more out of Brave than I did! At the end of the day, that's what's important. I'm sure there are plenty of people whose lives were not completely changed by The Great Mouse Detective as mine was.
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Old 01-17-2013, 12:26 AM   #34
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Plus Billy Connolly plays the King.
exactly!!! he the man!!! hehe

And yes JKRiki u must tire of being wrong all the time hehe
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Old 01-17-2013, 09:10 AM   #35
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And yes JKRiki u must tire of being wrong all the time hehe
Nah, being "wrong" is very useful, because then you can improve. Never get tired of improving!
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